5.25.2011

The Post About Who Should Make The First Move?

Heart the Window
Let's talk about love, shall we? 

And by "love" I mean "like."

And  by "we" I mean "you."

A new blog I've recently fallen for is A Woman's Guide to Women: A Blog for Men. Sharideth, the woman behind the curtain, posed this pot-stirring question yesterday:

I encourage you to go forth and answer for thyself. My complex and thoughtful answer to that question is "Maybe. Probably not." 

So I have my own question. It's inspired by my guy friend (are we really friends?) who claimed I should ask out the gentleman on whom I have a wee lil' crush. 

Should I make the ask? Should I wait to be pursued? Does it matter? Guys - do you care? Ladies - should I care?

I expect you to bring your best to the table. My mother is depending on it.
 
{image: Jamie}

26 comments:

  1. ooh, this is a tricky question. I am a firm believer that guys need to have some kind of investment in the relationship. I think one of the best ways to make that happen is for us to suck it up and ask a girl out. That gives us a certain amount of buy in.

    This is not to say that the girls shouldn't do anything and just wait passively. I think girls can communicate that they are interested and make themselves available. I have liked girls who I was pretty sure liked me (I was probably wrong) who never had ANY time to do anything.

    I think there are creative ways that girls can communicate interest.

    This is not to say that you can't ask him out. You just need to make sure he has some buy in at some point. Because you don't want a guy who doesn't take initiative. That would be lame.

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  2. I think gender roles are quite different from the turn of the century or mid-century standards of “this is a man’s role, this is the woman’s role” in a relationship.  We have women as the “bread winner” in a relationship, stay at home dad’s, and even women that control the relationship.  The lines of demarcation are blurred somewhat, even to the point of women paying for a date occasionally.  If a woman can end a relationship, why can she not start it?
                    With my wife and I, it was her that made the initial contact after a long period of absence.   We were good friends during our college days, and flirted with more but it never maturated.  She called one day out of the blue, and it went from there.  Our traditional roles took over as we continued down the dating road, but it took her to start it.
                    With my sister and her husband, his mother actually went up to ask for my sister’s number, as a means to arrange a blind meeting of the two.  While that mixes an old-fashioned betrothal and a new age idiosyncrasy; it worked!  We as a generation have lost the manners and ritual of a traditional courtship.  Just as we have adapted to communication by Twitter, interviewing through Skype, and Bible studies led by iPhone, we must accept that our relationships will change.
                    If the guy’s feelings are too bruised from being asked out on a date, he probably doesn’t have thick enough skin to withstand the ribbing he’ll encounter from you eventually anyways.  Give it a shot!

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  3. In the ideal world, the guy would do the pursuing... but in the real world, that's not always the case. Some guys are timid. Some are just lazy. Timid is acceptable. Lazy... not so much. But women with strong personalities (ahem, you and I) sometimes need to make the move. But there is a delicate balance, because you don't want to be overpowering... just assertive. Clear as mud, right? I don't really think I'm the one to be giving dating advice. Caleb is a special breed and not like most guys... and previous to Caleb, I obviously sucked at dating. But those are my words of wisdom. :)

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  4. Ahh, the question for the ages.  My answer?  I have no clue.  I'd like to think it's a possibility.  I have wonderful male friends, but with the exception of a couple of them, they're all married, so that doesn't even come into the equation.  With the guys I've known forever, yeah, they're my friends.  Yeah, we're all single.  Do I see relationships coming from either of those friendships? Probably not.  But who knows?

    I say ask away.  Of course, this is coming from a girl who won't make the first move, but that's just me.  I don't see a problem with it at all!

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  5. I think its a better question to ask - Do you want to be pursued? It is my belief that in the age of equality that we live in today that, with all the success and advancement that women have made, some women today would rather make the ask themselves. Having said that, I also believe that deep down, every woman wants to be pursued to some level. That's how God made them. Thus I would say that both scenarios can exist in a single person to some degree. I would also say that every real man that you would want to have, wants to find a woman to pamper and treasure - we want to treat you like royalty but so many today won't let us.

    The problem lies in the very advancement women have made. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for equal rights for women and equal pay and equal status. I'm a male feminist here. But to quote Rick Burgess: "Equal doesn't mean same." Women and men have gotten to the point where both are being told that to be equal men must treat women just the way that they treat other men (be honest do you really want a man treating you like he would another man?). This idea completely destroys the idea of chivalry, and to a lesser degree, the hope of being pursued. To me its not the fact too that men, deep down, don't want to chase after a woman, societal issues and norms of today tell them that if they treat a woman how they really want to be treated he is somehow belittling her and being insensitive and degrading to her.

    So, back to the initial questions at hand. Knowing you and your personality I would first have to ask the question: does he know that you have a crush on him? If yes then he may be trying to find the perfect opportunity to ask you - then again he may not be interested its just a chance you have to take (sorry girl). If no, then you may have to take the lead and ask. Or he could be oblivious to you completely (we can be rather stupid at times trust me - we don't like to admit it but we are). I would say either way is fine. To me its not really how the relationship is started, but the middle and the ending that matters.

    To the other question that you kinda alluded to: (yeah i know not really your question or was really posted but I'll answer anyway). Can men and women ever be just friends? I would say why can't they?. I personally have numerous female friends that I am very close to (some of whom are married) that in no way am I romantically attracted to. I would never dream of doing anything to them to hurt them. I love them very much but to me I view them more of a sister than a partner. Some would say that I can't love them that much without wanting to be romantically involved but I would counter that the bible says that there are many types of love, the issue is that our stupid English language doesn't have the proper wordage to adequately describe it. I've known them for years. I guess you could say we're the spies for each other. They answer my girl questions for me and I do the same for them with guys. I don't know why everyone wants to put added stress to a relationship by making it seem that the only reason a man would pursue a relationship with a woman was to date/marry her. I want the best for all of them - even to the point of being painfully honest with them on guy choices. So yes men and women can just be friends - if both minds are in the right place.

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  6. Hmmm, I agree with Mark that any guy who can appreciate your outgoing (and fabulous!) personality should be able to handle you asking him out. And I also agree with Ben that checking things out before jumping in is a good idea.  
    My advice?  Just tell him about the Guide for Men blog; pose the hypothetical question to HIM about whether or not men and women can be friends, and which one should do the asking if they're interested.  You'll likely learn something you didn't know about his views in general.

    Then there are creative hints.  You're good at joking around - you could easily drop some hints that he could laugh off if he is not interested, but that also suggested you'd be open to a date if he is.  That kind of well-intentioned "manipulation" can be confusing, but it would be interesting to see how he received it, right?  

    My husband accuses me of "testing" him too much, though, so this may totally backfire on you.  Good luck!

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  7. Such good manly wisdom - I really love the idea of the guy going out on the limb. I'm not the coolest when trying to indicate interest other than staring too long and then cheshire grinning. I also "like" things he posts on social media. That's sufficient, right?

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  8. I'm fairly certain my Mom has asked for several numbers on my behalf which makes me head hurt. Love your comments about changing our mindsets a bit around who does what in a relationship. It's hard for a girl raised on fairy tales to think outside the box - which I want to do! Could there be a better comment that includes an acknowledgement that I'll likely abuse my boyfriend? No, there could not.

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  9. My college roommate gave me a book once entitled "How To Be Assertive, Not Aggressive." It's probably time for a re-read. Great words of wisdom friend - I don't think I even open myself up to timid guys because I always think it would be a poor fit. Maybe not.

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  10. Maybe you could live vicariously through me?!? Maybe I could be a test subject. The good thing about even pondering it is experiencing a newfound respect for guys who must dread their own rejection...

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  11. I am pro-treating-me-like-royalty. For the record.

    Such great thoughts well thought. Probably every hesitation on both sides is a smidgen of fear mixed with a tablespoon of holy moly. And did he tell you he wasn't interested in me? WHAT DID HE SAY?!?!?!?

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  12. Jem - you're so practical! You must be a therapist :-) I'm the queen of "We should go out and drop it like it's hot." What? Juskiddin. I'm so crazy.

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  13. We could learn a lot from this experience :)

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  14. Jamey the guy versionMay 26, 2011 at 3:14 PM

    Well ... I have to say if you are on a dating site then I'm not sure why you aren't asking ... I mean
    you're paying a subscription fee, correct?  Ask him ... 

    If not ... suggesting that you meet for a coffee sometime (or some other mutual Christian activity) is easy enough to do ...

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  15. I'm personally loving the Asian Love ad that showed up on this post in my google reader.  But besides that, I say pursue "friendship" with your crush, and hope he gets the drift and asks you out.  But that's just my opinion...

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  16. My poor mother may never get her way about the online dating. Of course, I have entered my late thirties yet...

    I want to know what else constitutes a "Christian" activity? Like attending a revival or watching something starring Kirk Cameron? That may be my next "ask the Rabbit Readers..."

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  17. How about the ad at the bottom of the page RIGHT NOW is "Single and Over 40?" Boo.

    I like pursuing friendship. Maybe with a side of stalking? No?

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  18. At the risk of sounding old-fashioned, I still think it's good for the guy to make the first move. In general. There's something inside a man that makes him feel good about pursuing. But, there are always exceptions...

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  19. I don't think it's old-fashioned at all. I think there's something inside Jamie that likes being pursued. I need a button that says that.

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  20. I think I know you a little.  If said dude is confident and strong enough to be with you it shouldn't matter.  Go for it. Of all the chicas I have pursued in my life most of them have hinted they wanted pursuing.  Granted there have not been that many I have pursusued.  Also keep in mind I have not played the game of dating for 18 years (back when I was but a teenager) and the rules change somewhat with adults (especially adults who find themselves precariously close to middle age).  I say go for it.  If dude rebuffs your advances then move on.  Dudes (especially this dude) liked being pursued. 

    I told a young friend of ours who was pursuing a young maiden that the worst thing she can say is no.  Or maybe.  Maybe sucks as an answer to anything.  Pursue.  Tell him how you feel.  Send him a note that asks Do you like me?  Circle one YES or NO.  Hit him in the face if he makes his own box saying "maybe".  Hit him with that Army grade duffel you call a purse.  Then let me meet him.  That would always go well.

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  21. First, the term "middle age" is not appropriate for this blog. We're happy-go-lucky here. Plus, I plan to live to 118 so the time for such language is many moons away.

    I might have to take your advice. Minus the part about meeting you. The time for that will be when you officiate our wedding ceremony on the top of that ski slope...

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  22. Jamey the guy versionJune 1, 2011 at 9:13 AM

    It isn't so much what it does constitute ... but ... the other.  When I first replied I just said mutual activity.  I just added "Christian" to clarify; not so much to you but to readers in general.  I'm digging a hole ... I'm just going to hush.

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  23. How did I get my guy?  Not by asking him out, but making it VERY plain that I wanted to be asked out.  Did I make a spectacle out of myself? YES definitely.  But I sure like Ben's response.  And who knows...maybe someday, you'll have a Joseph Kinnaird in your life as well :)  You know you want that! hehe!

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  24. {For everyone else, "kk" is my best friend.} I like Ben's response too. And I want a Joseph Kinnaird on the inside, but tweaked a hair on the outside. And by "a hair" I mean less hair.

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  25. Stalking is perfectly acceptable.

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Don't be afraid if I chase your rabbit comment...

 
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